My post on this section and the previous one is on the post where Ms. Kindel kept commenting. Since it wasn't that long I'll just post it here but I read to page 317 and there is an important scene I discuss but it's not like it gives the ending away or anything:
I don't like any of the residents of Kiamo Ko. I don't like Sarima or her numbered sisters or her children who are obnoxious and stupid. Especially Manek who almost killed Liir and then was killed by a falling isicle (karma). I like Liir even though he's a bit strange. I mean where the heck did this child come from? There is the possibility that he is Fiyero's son since the magical fish/Carp told him so and then Nanny brings it up when she talks to Elphaba and Elphaba doesn't deny it.
This book makes me hate a ton of people. I'm almost tempted to copy what Evelyn did on her blog and make a list of people I want to punch in the face (don't worry I promised her that I would cite her if I did do that). Nessarose is really annoying again. Frex is all happy that his daughter has returned to the new state of Munchkinland and Nessa is just like oh I'm so important because I own my own country now and I'm gonna bewitch this ax meaning to maime or seriously injure (Emily thank you for understanding the reference :) ) someone because someone told me to and is gonna trade me Animals for it (and yes annoying Nessa in my mind talks in long run-on sentences).
Speaking of Animals, I liked that scene with the Elephant. I didn't really understand it though. It was just all of a sudden that Elphaba is now considered a witch. The Elephant and Elphaba have been cursed by the same person and are under the same spell. I'm assuming the enemy they share is the Wizard but could have Madame Morrible been the one to curse them? Hopefully we'll be able to find out. I wonder if the animals Elphaba has with her are any more important than the bees have been. Does anyone else believe that Elphaba ordered the bees to kill the cook? It sounds a bit weird to me but it seems possible especially after what happened when Elphaba rescued Chissery (who is adorable! :) ). I also like how she taught him to speak, bringing Doctor Dillamond and his ideas and theories back into importance, even if all he says is gibberish.
Also! Favorite Wicked song reference!If you know me well enough (or know the songs well enough) you know what song it is. :) " 'I suppose I need to apologize for that flurry of Chistery,' she said. 'I know I am you guest here at Kiamo Ko. I just flew off the handle' " (259).
Okay that's all I got. Can you guys believe that we are almost done with the book and the December project? I still haven't done the second half of the project...and I'm gonna miss this part of it. Maybe we can continue the blog through the rest of the series and then the Wizard of Oz book like Ms. Kindel suggested?
Okay just to add to my annoying ideas above about this section, Yackle is mentioned yet AGAIN:
"'I never knew if Mother Yackle was completely mad or a wise,prophetic old hen,' said Elphie, but the others weren't listening, so she lapsed into silence" (271).
Going off what Elphie says here, I think that I agree with the later of her predictions that Yackle is a "wise, prophetic old hen." Yackle seems to be there at the right moment to set everything into motion: she told Nanny that Melena's children were destined for greatness, she let Boq and all them into the Philosopher's Club where Tibbett got all messed up which in theory motivated Elphie to leave the nuns, she gives Elphie the magic broom to get to Munchkinland to see her sister, and Elphaba sorta sees her in the Grimmerie but that doesn't lead anywhere so far at least, and that's about it so far I think.
As I was looking at the part where Liir hides in the fish well with Manek's help, I began wondering why Liir is so afraid of everything. He's really hesitant to do anything and really defensive whenever the children accuse him of doing or begin something like when they believe that Chistery is his brother. Maybe this is true because he hasn't really had any interaction with children before he came to Kiamo Ko. I'm assuming that he lived the first part of his life at the nunnery so he would have been surrounded by praying women. What a boring childhood. And now he is constantly picked on by Manek. Again good thing that devil kid dies, even if he is Fiyero's son.
I think that the story of Saint Aelphaba of the Waterfall (beginning on my page 281 after the page break with the 10) is parallel to what Elphaba is going through. She was constantly bothered at Shiz and during the beginning of her life because she was different. And then she goes into hiding, like she is now at Kiamo Ko, and when she comes back she is worshipped. But that part hasn't come yet and maybe that is what Elphaba is hoping for: her time to step out from behind the waterfall and be worshipped instead of shunned. This story also has some parallels to the story Sarima told Nor about the Witch: how she stayed in the cave and still hasn't come out.
Okay new theory: Fiyero's son Irji is gay. My page 284 right after they found Liir in the fishwell. And he is now going to turn very religious. Just like Frex and Nessa. Oh joy.
And I also agree with everyone on the last post that Sarima knows about Elphaba's affair with Fiyero. On my page 285 while Sarima is telling Elphaba about the boys' initiation rite into the tribe: "'[Boys] need the inclination to fight, the drive to sink the knife into the flesh, the energy and initiative of fury. It's a requirement of hunting, of defense, of pride. Maybe of sex, too.' 'Yes, I know,' said Elphaba, remembering. Sarima blushed and looked unhappy, and continued" (285).
Okay that's all I have to add. Happy New Year everyone! :)
Ok so does anyone think Elphie has any power at all? I mean she's teaching the monkey through mimicking mostly and she hasn't done any sort of spell at all. It's actually a bit irritating. I mean the whole play and the Wizard of Oz center around her being an evil witch, neither of which she has turned out to be. Speaking of evil, Manek is such an evil child! He, I think, represents how evil is spawned in the innocence of childhood. I mean he's cruel to Liir for no other reason than the fact that he's weird. We see this in our own children. I found the discussion about hot and cold anger very cool. It makes sense though, boys having hot and girls having cold. I think it makes a good connection to how the genders are defined both in the book and in real life. In the book, I think that part of the reason Elphie is so issolated is because she doesn't fit traditional roles. Her need to take action does not fit in with the "cold" anger expected of a girl. Does anyone else think that Yackle coulod be a magical creature? I mean she was in the Grimmerie and seems to pop up in weird places. I'm not really sure what her role even is. She just seems to be a background weirdo, but I'm sure that since she had a question, she must be important somehow. i was really interested by Nor's reaction to the soldiars. I think the auther is using her to show how a girl develops mindsets based on experience. The soldiars to her are dashing and new and are the push for her to begin becoming sexually mature. She cleans up after them and pretends that she's dating one when she dances around half naked with one of their cloaks on. And she discovers the broom can fly a bit (yay finally some magic!) And we end with Frex asking Elphie to come run the newly seceded Munchkinland. I think that Frex asked her to do this because he is sure that she is his daughter, more so than he is sure of Nessarose. I also think that he is overly protective of Nessa, do to her disability, and so wants the less fragile Elphie to run the country if things go south. All in all I wasn't that impressed by this section. This whole part in Kiamo Ko seems to just be setting up a backstory for Fiyero and to introduce Liir.
Hello fellow Wicked lovers! So, I have an excuse for not posting in a couple days. Yes, I know, excuses are stupid and pointless. But I have a REALLY good one. Sickness! (DUN DUN DUN!) So, yeah. I was really sick the past couple of days. I couldn’t even stay up to watch the ball drop. Oh, and I haven’t eaten anything but crackers and apple sauce for 3 days. Woo! But enough about me, on to my thoughts! (Ok, still KINDA about me.) So, Katie, I agree with you. I hate pretty much EVERYONE you hate in this book. It’s safe to say the characters would not be “Popular” with us .I probably hate more people too. At the beginning I hated a ton of people, Elphaba’s parents, for example. I didn’t even like Galinda when we first met her! I guess it’s safe to say I don’t really like the characters in this book.(I do like Liir, though. At least there’s ONE person…) FAVORITE LINE OF THE BOOK SO FAR! On pages 272, when Sarima is telling the story, I love the part where it says “’Did she ever come out?’ ‘Not yet.’” I just LOVED it. Katie, you talked about how the two stories were similar, the one Sarima told and the one about Saint Aelphaba. What I found interesting is that the people want Saint Aelphaba to come back, while they fear the witch coming back. This also made me think of Elphaba, or “The Wicked Witch of the West”. In the movie, the people are just waiting for her to strike, expecting her to kill them all. But we know she has good intentions. She wants to help the animals/Animals, for example. Maybe both stories are parallel to Elphaba.
In the Ephaba and Sarima’s conversation about the witch, the theme of religion is once and brought up. One thing that I loved about the conversation between Sarima and Elphaba was that the two women portrayed both extremes in the argument. Sarima represents those who strictly believe in the afterlife. As we all know, the afterlife goes hand and hand with religion, so she may also symbolize those who are very religious. Elphaba on the other hand, is the opposite. She even says “Any afterlife notion is a manipulation and a sop” (272). We already know that she isn’t very fond of religion; she hated it when her father and Nessa talked about it. What I find so interesting about this is that both women are so completely sure of themselves. They completely ignore the other’s opinions. This is parallel to views about many religious things in real life. Religious people and nonreligious people will always be going at it. There isn’t really a happy middle with two extremes. (And yes, I do realize that my connection to this section of the book is longer than the actual section I am referring to. What, is that “Something Bad”?) So, Maddie, you talked about how you are questioning if Elphaba has any powers at all because she was teaching the monkey to speak without a spell or magic. Truthfully, I don’t mind that she doesn’t need magic to help him to talk. It proves that there’s no difference between animals and Animals. If animals can learn to speak, they’re the same as Animals. And if Animals are close to people, that means there’s no real difference between people and animals! (High five for animal rights!) In previous posts I have mentioned that I thought Wicked was paralleling the mistreatment of minority groups with the animals/Animals. If this is indeed true, the book is saying that there is no difference between minorities and non-minorities. Hope everyone had a “Wonderful” New Years Day! (Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.)
Ok, so I posted this in one post like 5 minutes ago and it didn't come up, so I posted it in 2. If for some reason it comes up again, thats why. Just thought I'd tell you guys. BYE!!!
My post on this section and the previous one is on the post where Ms. Kindel kept commenting. Since it wasn't that long I'll just post it here but I read to page 317 and there is an important scene I discuss but it's not like it gives the ending away or anything:
ReplyDeleteI don't like any of the residents of Kiamo Ko. I don't like Sarima or her numbered sisters or her children who are obnoxious and stupid. Especially Manek who almost killed Liir and then was killed by a falling isicle (karma). I like Liir even though he's a bit strange. I mean where the heck did this child come from? There is the possibility that he is Fiyero's son since the magical fish/Carp told him so and then Nanny brings it up when she talks to Elphaba and Elphaba doesn't deny it.
This book makes me hate a ton of people. I'm almost tempted to copy what Evelyn did on her blog and make a list of people I want to punch in the face (don't worry I promised her that I would cite her if I did do that). Nessarose is really annoying again. Frex is all happy that his daughter has returned to the new state of Munchkinland and Nessa is just like oh I'm so important because I own my own country now and I'm gonna bewitch this ax meaning to maime or seriously injure (Emily thank you for understanding the reference :) ) someone because someone told me to and is gonna trade me Animals for it (and yes annoying Nessa in my mind talks in long run-on sentences).
Speaking of Animals, I liked that scene with the Elephant. I didn't really understand it though. It was just all of a sudden that Elphaba is now considered a witch. The Elephant and Elphaba have been cursed by the same person and are under the same spell. I'm assuming the enemy they share is the Wizard but could have Madame Morrible been the one to curse them? Hopefully we'll be able to find out. I wonder if the animals Elphaba has with her are any more important than the bees have been. Does anyone else believe that Elphaba ordered the bees to kill the cook? It sounds a bit weird to me but it seems possible especially after what happened when Elphaba rescued Chissery (who is adorable! :) ). I also like how she taught him to speak, bringing Doctor Dillamond and his ideas and theories back into importance, even if all he says is gibberish.
Also! Favorite Wicked song reference!If you know me well enough (or know the songs well enough) you know what song it is. :)
" 'I suppose I need to apologize for that flurry of Chistery,' she said. 'I know I am you guest here at Kiamo Ko. I just flew off the handle' " (259).
Okay that's all I got. Can you guys believe that we are almost done with the book and the December project? I still haven't done the second half of the project...and I'm gonna miss this part of it. Maybe we can continue the blog through the rest of the series and then the Wizard of Oz book like Ms. Kindel suggested?
Okay just to add to my annoying ideas above about this section, Yackle is mentioned yet AGAIN:
ReplyDelete"'I never knew if Mother Yackle was completely mad or a wise,prophetic old hen,' said Elphie, but the others weren't listening, so she lapsed into silence" (271).
Going off what Elphie says here, I think that I agree with the later of her predictions that Yackle is a "wise, prophetic old hen." Yackle seems to be there at the right moment to set everything into motion: she told Nanny that Melena's children were destined for greatness, she let Boq and all them into the Philosopher's Club where Tibbett got all messed up which in theory motivated Elphie to leave the nuns, she gives Elphie the magic broom to get to Munchkinland to see her sister, and Elphaba sorta sees her in the Grimmerie but that doesn't lead anywhere so far at least, and that's about it so far I think.
As I was looking at the part where Liir hides in the fish well with Manek's help, I began wondering why Liir is so afraid of everything. He's really hesitant to do anything and really defensive whenever the children accuse him of doing or begin something like when they believe that Chistery is his brother. Maybe this is true because he hasn't really had any interaction with children before he came to Kiamo Ko. I'm assuming that he lived the first part of his life at the nunnery so he would have been surrounded by praying women. What a boring childhood. And now he is constantly picked on by Manek. Again good thing that devil kid dies, even if he is Fiyero's son.
I think that the story of Saint Aelphaba of the Waterfall (beginning on my page 281 after the page break with the 10) is parallel to what Elphaba is going through. She was constantly bothered at Shiz and during the beginning of her life because she was different. And then she goes into hiding, like she is now at Kiamo Ko, and when she comes back she is worshipped. But that part hasn't come yet and maybe that is what Elphaba is hoping for: her time to step out from behind the waterfall and be worshipped instead of shunned. This story also has some parallels to the story Sarima told Nor about the Witch: how she stayed in the cave and still hasn't come out.
Okay new theory: Fiyero's son Irji is gay. My page 284 right after they found Liir in the fishwell. And he is now going to turn very religious. Just like Frex and Nessa. Oh joy.
And I also agree with everyone on the last post that Sarima knows about Elphaba's affair with Fiyero. On my page 285 while Sarima is telling Elphaba about the boys' initiation rite into the tribe: "'[Boys] need the inclination to fight, the drive to sink the knife into the flesh, the energy and initiative of fury. It's a requirement of hunting, of defense, of pride. Maybe of sex, too.' 'Yes, I know,' said Elphaba, remembering. Sarima blushed and looked unhappy, and continued" (285).
Okay that's all I have to add. Happy New Year everyone! :)
Ok so does anyone think Elphie has any power at all? I mean she's teaching the monkey through mimicking mostly and she hasn't done any sort of spell at all. It's actually a bit irritating. I mean the whole play and the Wizard of Oz center around her being an evil witch, neither of which she has turned out to be.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of evil, Manek is such an evil child! He, I think, represents how evil is spawned in the innocence of childhood. I mean he's cruel to Liir for no other reason than the fact that he's weird. We see this in our own children.
I found the discussion about hot and cold anger very cool. It makes sense though, boys having hot and girls having cold. I think it makes a good connection to how the genders are defined both in the book and in real life. In the book, I think that part of the reason Elphie is so issolated is because she doesn't fit traditional roles. Her need to take action does not fit in with the "cold" anger expected of a girl.
Does anyone else think that Yackle coulod be a magical creature? I mean she was in the Grimmerie and seems to pop up in weird places. I'm not really sure what her role even is. She just seems to be a background weirdo, but I'm sure that since she had a question, she must be important somehow.
i was really interested by Nor's reaction to the soldiars. I think the auther is using her to show how a girl develops mindsets based on experience. The soldiars to her are dashing and new and are the push for her to begin becoming sexually mature. She cleans up after them and pretends that she's dating one when she dances around half naked with one of their cloaks on. And she discovers the broom can fly a bit (yay finally some magic!)
And we end with Frex asking Elphie to come run the newly seceded Munchkinland. I think that Frex asked her to do this because he is sure that she is his daughter, more so than he is sure of Nessarose. I also think that he is overly protective of Nessa, do to her disability, and so wants the less fragile Elphie to run the country if things go south. All in all I wasn't that impressed by this section. This whole part in Kiamo Ko seems to just be setting up a backstory for Fiyero and to introduce Liir.
Hello fellow Wicked lovers! So, I have an excuse for not posting in a couple days. Yes, I know, excuses are stupid and pointless. But I have a REALLY good one. Sickness! (DUN DUN DUN!) So, yeah. I was really sick the past couple of days. I couldn’t even stay up to watch the ball drop. Oh, and I haven’t eaten anything but crackers and apple sauce for 3 days. Woo! But enough about me, on to my thoughts! (Ok, still KINDA about me.)
ReplyDeleteSo, Katie, I agree with you. I hate pretty much EVERYONE you hate in this book. It’s safe to say the characters would not be “Popular” with us .I probably hate more people too. At the beginning I hated a ton of people, Elphaba’s parents, for example. I didn’t even like Galinda when we first met her! I guess it’s safe to say I don’t really like the characters in this book.(I do like Liir, though. At least there’s ONE person…)
FAVORITE LINE OF THE BOOK SO FAR! On pages 272, when Sarima is telling the story, I love the part where it says “’Did she ever come out?’ ‘Not yet.’” I just LOVED it. Katie, you talked about how the two stories were similar, the one Sarima told and the one about Saint Aelphaba. What I found interesting is that the people want Saint Aelphaba to come back, while they fear the witch coming back. This also made me think of Elphaba, or “The Wicked Witch of the West”. In the movie, the people are just waiting for her to strike, expecting her to kill them all. But we know she has good intentions. She wants to help the animals/Animals, for example. Maybe both stories are parallel to Elphaba.
In the Ephaba and Sarima’s conversation about the witch, the theme of religion is once and brought up. One thing that I loved about the conversation between Sarima and Elphaba was that the two women portrayed both extremes in the argument. Sarima represents those who strictly believe in the afterlife. As we all know, the afterlife goes hand and hand with religion, so she may also symbolize those who are very religious. Elphaba on the other hand, is the opposite. She even says “Any afterlife notion is a manipulation and a sop” (272). We already know that she isn’t very fond of religion; she hated it when her father and Nessa talked about it. What I find so interesting about this is that both women are so completely sure of themselves. They completely ignore the other’s opinions. This is parallel to views about many religious things in real life. Religious people and nonreligious people will always be going at it. There isn’t really a happy middle with two extremes. (And yes, I do realize that my connection to this section of the book is longer than the actual section I am referring to. What, is that “Something Bad”?)
ReplyDeleteSo, Maddie, you talked about how you are questioning if Elphaba has any powers at all because she was teaching the monkey to speak without a spell or magic. Truthfully, I don’t mind that she doesn’t need magic to help him to talk. It proves that there’s no difference between animals and Animals. If animals can learn to speak, they’re the same as Animals. And if Animals are close to people, that means there’s no real difference between people and animals! (High five for animal rights!) In previous posts I have mentioned that I thought Wicked was paralleling the mistreatment of minority groups with the animals/Animals. If this is indeed true, the book is saying that there is no difference between minorities and non-minorities.
Hope everyone had a “Wonderful” New Years Day! (Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.)
Ok, so I posted this in one post like 5 minutes ago and it didn't come up, so I posted it in 2. If for some reason it comes up again, thats why. Just thought I'd tell you guys. BYE!!!
ReplyDelete