Ok so the whole situation with the Animals being traded for the magic ax seems to be very similar to the slave trade. The forced sex, separation of children and parents, barter of, and poor treatment of the Cow and Sheep all seem to draw direct connections with civil war era slavery. So Frex and Melena BOTH had a relationship with Turtle Heart? Could this get anymore twisted? So basicly, Frex loves Nessa more because he had sex with both of her parents? Wow. I don;t understand why Elphie is so hated! She is more than likely Frex's child and hasn't taken over a country. Nessa seems to be more the wicked witch than her. And that is with being the more loved child. I guess the auther is using Elphie's stronger moral character to show how corrupt the seemingly religious can be and how through adversity comes streangth. I love when Elphie says "I shall wait for your shoes". I allways thought that the Witch in Wizard of Oz was only mean because she wanted the shoes. I mean they were her sisters. But now I'm not sure why she wants the shoes. She doesn't need the magic in them or want them to remember her sister by. I guess they could be a symbol of her father's love, but she seems to be in an ok place with him. I shall continue my reading later...
Maybe Nessa is more loved because Frex believes she's a combination of his two loves, his wife and his lover, simillar to Elphaba/Fiyero/Sarima. Sarima starts to like Elphaba and they may not have an affair but she learns to love her as a friend. She obviously loved her husband or she wouldn't still be mourning. Liir is like Nessa in a way if you think of it that way. Just a little connection I made.
I'm really confussed about the whole shoe thing too. Maddie, you're making sense with your potential different reasons, but like you basically said, none of them make sense. It doesn't really seem as if Elphaba knows why she wants them either. Maybe she thinks they'll bring Fiyero back and help her save his family. Oh and speaking of that, the wizard is such a very mean word! He had Nor chained, chained! She's not an animal. If you're going to keep her prisioner for such a long time you should not be doing that. That totally bugged me. He was all oh yes they youth and all that, yet he has one chained behind him. The wizard just bugs me. He's a mean person. I don't blame Elphaba for wanting terrible things to happen to him. Whoops, a little rant-like there. I better stop before I get too into it. :)
Unfortunately, I'm just gonna rant here. This isn't a list of people whom I want to punch in the face, it's just a list of important people from this section and my opinions on them.
Wizard= evil, self-centered, power hungry, stupid old man.
Nessa= very annoying, somehow magical, too religious ruler
Frex= still annoying, still favors his other daughter, still religious but not as much, oh and he's bisexual too since he loved Turtle Heart and supposedly Melena. nice. that's another not-heterosexual character. (I think Fiyero's other son Irji, or whatever his name is, is also homosexual. see previous post for evidence).
Glinda= just as annoying and clueless as ever.
Elphaba= still love her even if you guys don't :)
Anyway, again in this section, the theme of equality comes back with the part about Nessa doing a service to a woman in exchange for Animals. This of course get's Elphaba all worked up again. It shows that the Animals' statuses in Oz are degrading (because of the Wizard) and that nothing is being done to stop it (or so it seems).
So everyone at Kiamo Ko is gone besides Liir and Nanny and Elphaba's animals (or can we consider Chistery an Animal now? even if he just speaks gibberish?). Would it be wrong if I cheered? It's no secret that I hated them all. They were taken away for "protection" but seriously I think they would have been protected in a castle. On like the top of a cliff/mountain/at some very high altitude. And Elphaba still feels guilty about her affair however many years ago with Fiyero and causing his death (at least that's what she thinks and what everything we've read so far leads us to believe) so she vows to save them. Oh joy. :P
Okay on a somewhat happier note, I have a new favorite line: "Everybody needs to grow up and leave home sometimes, but sometimes HOME DOESN'T LIKE IT" (333). Oh and Nessa's dead! I will now cheer again at the total wrong place and time. And now Dorothy's in Oz. With Nessa's shoes. And that little dog Dodo (funniest part in the play. lol :)Don't worry Emily it's not really a spoiler. just Glinda being Glinda).
On the topic of shoes, in the play it's obvious why she wants them, but here it could be anything Maddie suggested. I think that she wants the power, since as Maddie pointed out in one of her previous point, we haven't really seen if Elphaba has any real powers. I think they are more of a symbol of Frex's love that Elphaba has always craved and she hasn't gotten yet.
Now when Elphaba finally meets the Wizard, he says he is protecting Nor from her. What has Elphaba done? Tried to murder Madame Morrible, converted a snow monkey into an Animal (sort of), developed winged monkeys, advocated for Animal rights, tried to figure out the deaths of Doctor Dillamond and Fiyero, and is in hiding from the Wizard just because she doesn't agree with him. So what does the Wizard have against Elphaba??? Besides the fact that she has the Grimmerie that the Wizard wants because he can read it. I think Elphaba just hates the Wizard because of what he has done to the Animals and the Wizard hates Elphaba because he is her biggest opponent if that makes any sense.
I think Boq coming back into the story for a few pages helps us as the readers figure out the tensions between Elphaba and the Wizard. Elphaba at this point admits she doesn't even know what she (or the Wizard since Elphaba is so concerned about the Wizard getting those shoes) wants the shoes for: "'The shoes are very magic, are they?...Or is it just symbolic?' 'How do I even know?...I haven't ever put them on. But if I could get them and they could walk me out of this parlous life, I wouldn't be sorry'" (360).
Boq on the same page also mentions that picture he found in the library all those years ago. The one that Casey found, the one of the cover of the book. He connects it to Dorothy with Toto as the little animal in her arms. At first, I did the same thing but I second guessed it. But the picture that Casey found connects the picture to Elphaba instead with a baby Chistery in her arms, if it is the same picture.
One last point, I promise. I believe that Elphaba truly becomes evil at this point in the book at the end of the section. It is similar to the song "No Good Deed" (one of my favorites) in the play where Elphaba says "Sure I meant well, well look at what well meant did...Let all Oz be agreed, I'm wicked through and through...I promise no good deed will I attempt to do again... no good deed will I do again." This line is similar to where in the book she says "Virtually every campaign she'd set out for herself had ended in failure" (362). It has the same sort of idea as the song because then she decides to go kill Madame Morrible (yay).
Okay I'm done with my very long rant/post. Happy New Year everyone! See you in 2011! :)
PS if anyone is looking for the sequel, Son of A Witch, I've looked in Borders and they don't have it! :'( I didn't check the Borders in the mall so they might have it there but they do have A Lion Among Men, which is the third book at Borders at Waterford Commons.
I found Nanny having the discussion with Elphaba about how Melena only wanted sons because the title was inherited through the female line interesting because Melena ended up with not one but two daughters and each had some form of disability in a way. Elphaba’s skin was green when she was born, and Nessarose was born without arms. I feel like that was someone punishing Melena for wanting only sons so incredibly badly. Instead of having a son, she received two daughters who were not normal by society’s standard which was a way of punishing Melena.
On page 384 it says, “Perhaps Elphaba owed her [Nessarose] the chance of liberty. Yet how much really could you owe other people? Was it endless?” I found this line interesting because it’s asking whether or not Elphaba should have done more for her sister. The ending of the line asking if that would be endless is interesting because once a person does one thing for another person, that person will keep asking for more favors. If Elphaba had done something for Nessarose, she would have wanted more favors and Elphaba would be trapped in a never ending circle. In real life this holds true as well. You reach a certain point where you begin to wonder when helping people becomes either tiring or unnecessary or even never ending. To some people it’s easier to never owe anyone anything, so that way you are not in debt to them either. I think this is how Elphaba feels as well.
On page 395 it says, “I know who you are, Fabala…So I am to be a whipping girl, thought Elphaba, I am to be a first line of defense. Her pleasure evaporated.” I found this part interesting because her father is saying that Elphaba should rule with Nessarose but Elphaba realizes her father’s intentions. She realizes that her father wants her to be there with Nessarose in case she messes up; to protect her. To protect her just like Elphaba had to do when she and Nessarose were younger. This is interesting because they are both grown women, yet their father feels Nessarose still needs protection especially protection given from her older sister. It seems to be the one role in the family that Elphaba is actually accepted for; Nessarose’s protector.
“The Eminence of the East. Or should I call you the Witch of the East?” I was wondering when Nessarose would finally be referred to as the Witch of the East..that’s all I wanted to say on this.
“It’s not offered me any individual rights to have an individual name.” This is said by the Cow in a conversation with Elphaba. I found this line interesting because this is true in the book and in real life as well. Everyone has their own individual name, but that does not guarantee they get rights as well. The Cow has an actual name but he doesn’t say it because there is no point. Back when America was just beginning women were discriminated against like the animals are in this book. It didn’t matter what each individual women’s name was; they were classified as “women” just like Cow and Sheep are classified as “animals.” Being separated into those two groups identifies them. Because they are a women or an animal they no longer have rights regardless of what their name is.
“Well, I don’t want to be lectured by you about my everlasting duties to Nessie. I gave her my childhood, I got her going at Shiz. She’s made her life the way she wants it, and she still has choice and free will even now.” I like how Elphaba finally tells her father that she practically raised Nessarose and that she helped Nessarose all her life. Elphaba tells her dad she does not want to take over her birthright or help Nessarose govern Munchkinland. This shows how defiant Elphaba is, but also how strong life has made her. She is not afraid to voice her opinion about people, ideas, events, etc and she is headstrong and this is why I like Elphaba in this book. She is definitely a well-developed character in my opinion.
One last thing, I disagree with Katie about Elphaba being truly evil at this point. I do, however, understand what she is saying and where she is coming from, but I still strongly believe that society had an effect on her and because of people and society she is evil. To me, being truly evil, means that you make the decisions yourself without any outside influence from anything. Elphaba was influenced by her family and friends and the rest of society which caused her to make decisions viewed as evil by everyone else. I think if Elphaba had had a different family, different childhood, different life, she would not have made half the decisions she did. I feel as if Elphaba has a strong sense of morals which are used to show how corrupt other people in the book are. That’s just my opinion on it.
Since everything else seems to be well-developed in other people’s posts I won’t re-say what has already been said. I did enjoy the book, and was rather glad when Madame Morrible died because I really did not like her I think this was a great book to talk about because it brought up several themes that were great to talk about as long as characters which were worthwhile to analyze and talk about.
Hope everyone enjoys the last couple days of break :)
Cheyenne, on disagreeing with me, I failed to completely explain myself there. If you remember with the play, in the song No Good Deed, I believe the audience got the feeling that Elphaba was accepting her title as the Wicked Witch of the West. Which sounds really different than what I actually said. lol. But that was the point I was trying to make if that makes any sense at all. I do agree with you that Elphaba is greatly influenced by those around her and if her upbringing had been different than her actions would also be different.
Maybe someone should just appear in the book and hit the Wizard in the back of the head with a frying pan. Yes, that would be good. I never liked him. Ever since I read the part about his weird skeleton appearance thing and throughout the rest of the book, he just got even more evil and mean and horrible and all those other words, like what Emily said haha (:! I always get so annoyed with books about horrible leaders like the Wizard. He’s such a stupid dictator kind of guy. I don’t understand why he can’t just be more sensitive and accept people for their differences. Why can’t he just see that Animals can play important roles in society? But besides that, yeah, oh my gosh, Emily, I hated how Nor was chained. But the Wizard does what he wants because he can, which still stinks. Maddie, that was a good connection to actual slavery in the past. I completely agree with you. It’s just so wrong. No living being should be traded for slavery in order for one to obtain a certain item. It makes me really think about the treatment of Animals. The trading of them for the ax shows evidence kind of that they’re just a bunch of animals. It’s horrible, though, because they seem so knowledgable and if they were given a chance to join politics in Oz then maybe society would be better. ALSO!!! I knew it all along! Frex is gay! Ever since the part about Frex always acting so affectionate towards Turtle Heart I knew. It still weirds me out though. Both parents? That’s just gross. So I’m a little confused. Nessa’s dad was Turtle Heart right? I think I missed the part about Elphaba explaining Shell. Can someone explain, please?
Oh, good point Chey/Katie haha (: I'm pretty sure anyone could be different just by how they were brought up. But then again everything happens for a reason so everything that happened to Elphaba was supposed to happen.
Kate: That definitely clarifies your opinion a little better for me. I definitely agree with what you are saying in the fact that she is now accepting her title as the Wicked Witch of the West. However, I still think that she is not evil herself. My opinion still stands :) Tiff: I'm pretty sure that yes, Nessarose's father is Turtle Heart and not Frex.
I agrees Cheyenne I don't think that Elphaba is truly evil even at this point. There were so many other variables that affected her. How she was brought up was definitely contributed because things were unstable in her childhood and she was not treated very well. She had been bullied throughout her life and witnessed so many injustices concerning the Animals and other events that if she had turned out any differently it would have been. I do agree with you Katie when she does accept her title but i think it was a gradual acceptance because on my page 337 "That's why I call myself a witch now: the Wicked Witch of the West, if you want the full glory of it. As long as people are going to call you a lunatic anyway, why not get the benefit of it? It liberates you from convention." She had already really accepted her title and it allowed her to do things she wouldn't normally do. If everyone already thought so poorly of her she might as well fit the part. This is also how society influences her. They gave her the title she just merely lived up to it. I agree Maddie she doesn’t really seem to know her own reasons for wanting the shoes so much. Nessarose did promise them to her but why does Elphaba need them so much? She is fixated on them and will stop at nothing to get them. I also like the quote on page 338 “People who claim they are evil are usually no worse than the rest of us.’ He sighed. ‘Its people who claim that they’re good, or anyway better than the rest of us, that you have to be wary of.” Elphaba doesn’t claim to be evil but the rest of the land claims it for her. Boq makes a good point because those who claim to be evil are feared but those who claim to be better than everyone else like Nessarose and the Wizard are the ones to look out for. They believe they can overcome anything and are superior to the average population and if they believe it enough others will follow suit making them powerful.
Ok so the whole situation with the Animals being traded for the magic ax seems to be very similar to the slave trade. The forced sex, separation of children and parents, barter of, and poor treatment of the Cow and Sheep all seem to draw direct connections with civil war era slavery.
ReplyDeleteSo Frex and Melena BOTH had a relationship with Turtle Heart? Could this get anymore twisted? So basicly, Frex loves Nessa more because he had sex with both of her parents? Wow. I don;t understand why Elphie is so hated! She is more than likely Frex's child and hasn't taken over a country. Nessa seems to be more the wicked witch than her. And that is with being the more loved child. I guess the auther is using Elphie's stronger moral character to show how corrupt the seemingly religious can be and how through adversity comes streangth.
I love when Elphie says "I shall wait for your shoes". I allways thought that the Witch in Wizard of Oz was only mean because she wanted the shoes. I mean they were her sisters. But now I'm not sure why she wants the shoes. She doesn't need the magic in them or want them to remember her sister by. I guess they could be a symbol of her father's love, but she seems to be in an ok place with him.
I shall continue my reading later...
Maybe Nessa is more loved because Frex believes she's a combination of his two loves, his wife and his lover, simillar to Elphaba/Fiyero/Sarima. Sarima starts to like Elphaba and they may not have an affair but she learns to love her as a friend. She obviously loved her husband or she wouldn't still be mourning. Liir is like Nessa in a way if you think of it that way. Just a little connection I made.
ReplyDeleteI'm really confussed about the whole shoe thing too. Maddie, you're making sense with your potential different reasons, but like you basically said, none of them make sense. It doesn't really seem as if Elphaba knows why she wants them either. Maybe she thinks they'll bring Fiyero back and help her save his family. Oh and speaking of that, the wizard is such a very mean word! He had Nor chained, chained! She's not an animal. If you're going to keep her prisioner for such a long time you should not be doing that. That totally bugged me. He was all oh yes they youth and all that, yet he has one chained behind him. The wizard just bugs me. He's a mean person. I don't blame Elphaba for wanting terrible things to happen to him. Whoops, a little rant-like there. I better stop before I get too into it. :)
-Emily
Unfortunately, I'm just gonna rant here. This isn't a list of people whom I want to punch in the face, it's just a list of important people from this section and my opinions on them.
ReplyDeleteWizard= evil, self-centered, power hungry, stupid old man.
Nessa= very annoying, somehow magical, too religious ruler
Frex= still annoying, still favors his other daughter, still religious but not as much, oh and he's bisexual too since he loved Turtle Heart and supposedly Melena. nice. that's another not-heterosexual character. (I think Fiyero's other son Irji, or whatever his name is, is also homosexual. see previous post for evidence).
Glinda= just as annoying and clueless as ever.
Elphaba= still love her even if you guys don't :)
Anyway, again in this section, the theme of equality comes back with the part about Nessa doing a service to a woman in exchange for Animals. This of course get's Elphaba all worked up again. It shows that the Animals' statuses in Oz are degrading (because of the Wizard) and that nothing is being done to stop it (or so it seems).
So everyone at Kiamo Ko is gone besides Liir and Nanny and Elphaba's animals (or can we consider Chistery an Animal now? even if he just speaks gibberish?). Would it be wrong if I cheered? It's no secret that I hated them all. They were taken away for "protection" but seriously I think they would have been protected in a castle. On like the top of a cliff/mountain/at some very high altitude. And Elphaba still feels guilty about her affair however many years ago with Fiyero and causing his death (at least that's what she thinks and what everything we've read so far leads us to believe) so she vows to save them. Oh joy. :P
not done with the ranting!
ReplyDeleteOkay on a somewhat happier note, I have a new favorite line: "Everybody needs to grow up and leave home sometimes, but sometimes HOME DOESN'T LIKE IT" (333). Oh and Nessa's dead! I will now cheer again at the total wrong place and time. And now Dorothy's in Oz. With Nessa's shoes. And that little dog Dodo (funniest part in the play. lol :)Don't worry Emily it's not really a spoiler. just Glinda being Glinda).
On the topic of shoes, in the play it's obvious why she wants them, but here it could be anything Maddie suggested. I think that she wants the power, since as Maddie pointed out in one of her previous point, we haven't really seen if Elphaba has any real powers. I think they are more of a symbol of Frex's love that Elphaba has always craved and she hasn't gotten yet.
Now when Elphaba finally meets the Wizard, he says he is protecting Nor from her. What has Elphaba done? Tried to murder Madame Morrible, converted a snow monkey into an Animal (sort of), developed winged monkeys, advocated for Animal rights, tried to figure out the deaths of Doctor Dillamond and Fiyero, and is in hiding from the Wizard just because she doesn't agree with him. So what does the Wizard have against Elphaba??? Besides the fact that she has the Grimmerie that the Wizard wants because he can read it. I think Elphaba just hates the Wizard because of what he has done to the Animals and the Wizard hates Elphaba because he is her biggest opponent if that makes any sense.
I think Boq coming back into the story for a few pages helps us as the readers figure out the tensions between Elphaba and the Wizard. Elphaba at this point admits she doesn't even know what she (or the Wizard since Elphaba is so concerned about the Wizard getting those shoes) wants the shoes for: "'The shoes are very magic, are they?...Or is it just symbolic?' 'How do I even know?...I haven't ever put them on. But if I could get them and they could walk me out of this parlous life, I wouldn't be sorry'" (360).
Boq on the same page also mentions that picture he found in the library all those years ago. The one that Casey found, the one of the cover of the book. He connects it to Dorothy with Toto as the little animal in her arms. At first, I did the same thing but I second guessed it. But the picture that Casey found connects the picture to Elphaba instead with a baby Chistery in her arms, if it is the same picture.
One last point, I promise. I believe that Elphaba truly becomes evil at this point in the book at the end of the section. It is similar to the song "No Good Deed" (one of my favorites) in the play where Elphaba says "Sure I meant well, well look at what well meant did...Let all Oz be agreed, I'm wicked through and through...I promise no good deed will I attempt to do again... no good deed will I do again." This line is similar to where in the book she says "Virtually every campaign she'd set out for herself had ended in failure" (362). It has the same sort of idea as the song because then she decides to go kill Madame Morrible (yay).
Okay I'm done with my very long rant/post. Happy New Year everyone! See you in 2011! :)
PS if anyone is looking for the sequel, Son of A Witch, I've looked in Borders and they don't have it! :'( I didn't check the Borders in the mall so they might have it there but they do have A Lion Among Men, which is the third book at Borders at Waterford Commons.
ReplyDeleteI found Nanny having the discussion with Elphaba about how Melena only wanted sons because the title was inherited through the female line interesting because Melena ended up with not one but two daughters and each had some form of disability in a way. Elphaba’s skin was green when she was born, and Nessarose was born without arms. I feel like that was someone punishing Melena for wanting only sons so incredibly badly. Instead of having a son, she received two daughters who were not normal by society’s standard which was a way of punishing Melena.
ReplyDeleteOn page 384 it says, “Perhaps Elphaba owed her [Nessarose] the chance of liberty. Yet how much really could you owe other people? Was it endless?” I found this line interesting because it’s asking whether or not Elphaba should have done more for her sister. The ending of the line asking if that would be endless is interesting because once a person does one thing for another person, that person will keep asking for more favors. If Elphaba had done something for Nessarose, she would have wanted more favors and Elphaba would be trapped in a never ending circle. In real life this holds true as well. You reach a certain point where you begin to wonder when helping people becomes either tiring or unnecessary or even never ending. To some people it’s easier to never owe anyone anything, so that way you are not in debt to them either. I think this is how Elphaba feels as well.
On page 395 it says, “I know who you are, Fabala…So I am to be a whipping girl, thought Elphaba, I am to be a first line of defense. Her pleasure evaporated.” I found this part interesting because her father is saying that Elphaba should rule with Nessarose but Elphaba realizes her father’s intentions. She realizes that her father wants her to be there with Nessarose in case she messes up; to protect her. To protect her just like Elphaba had to do when she and Nessarose were younger. This is interesting because they are both grown women, yet their father feels Nessarose still needs protection especially protection given from her older sister. It seems to be the one role in the family that Elphaba is actually accepted for; Nessarose’s protector.
“The Eminence of the East. Or should I call you the Witch of the East?” I was wondering when Nessarose would finally be referred to as the Witch of the East..that’s all I wanted to say on this.
“It’s not offered me any individual rights to have an individual name.” This is said by the Cow in a conversation with Elphaba. I found this line interesting because this is true in the book and in real life as well. Everyone has their own individual name, but that does not guarantee they get rights as well. The Cow has an actual name but he doesn’t say it because there is no point. Back when America was just beginning women were discriminated against like the animals are in this book. It didn’t matter what each individual women’s name was; they were classified as “women” just like Cow and Sheep are classified as “animals.” Being separated into those two groups identifies them. Because they are a women or an animal they no longer have rights regardless of what their name is.
ReplyDelete“Well, I don’t want to be lectured by you about my everlasting duties to Nessie. I gave her my childhood, I got her going at Shiz. She’s made her life the way she wants it, and she still has choice and free will even now.” I like how Elphaba finally tells her father that she practically raised Nessarose and that she helped Nessarose all her life. Elphaba tells her dad she does not want to take over her birthright or help Nessarose govern Munchkinland. This shows how defiant Elphaba is, but also how strong life has made her. She is not afraid to voice her opinion about people, ideas, events, etc and she is headstrong and this is why I like Elphaba in this book. She is definitely a well-developed character in my opinion.
One last thing, I disagree with Katie about Elphaba being truly evil at this point. I do, however, understand what she is saying and where she is coming from, but I still strongly believe that society had an effect on her and because of people and society she is evil. To me, being truly evil, means that you make the decisions yourself without any outside influence from anything. Elphaba was influenced by her family and friends and the rest of society which caused her to make decisions viewed as evil by everyone else. I think if Elphaba had had a different family, different childhood, different life, she would not have made half the decisions she did. I feel as if Elphaba has a strong sense of morals which are used to show how corrupt other people in the book are. That’s just my opinion on it.
Since everything else seems to be well-developed in other people’s posts I won’t re-say what has already been said. I did enjoy the book, and was rather glad when Madame Morrible died because I really did not like her I think this was a great book to talk about because it brought up several themes that were great to talk about as long as characters which were worthwhile to analyze and talk about.
Hope everyone enjoys the last couple days of break :)
Cheyenne, on disagreeing with me, I failed to completely explain myself there. If you remember with the play, in the song No Good Deed, I believe the audience got the feeling that Elphaba was accepting her title as the Wicked Witch of the West. Which sounds really different than what I actually said. lol. But that was the point I was trying to make if that makes any sense at all. I do agree with you that Elphaba is greatly influenced by those around her and if her upbringing had been different than her actions would also be different.
ReplyDeleteMaybe someone should just appear in the book and hit the Wizard in the back of the head with a frying pan. Yes, that would be good. I never liked him. Ever since I read the part about his weird skeleton appearance thing and throughout the rest of the book, he just got even more evil and mean and horrible and all those other words, like what Emily said haha (:!
ReplyDeleteI always get so annoyed with books about horrible leaders like the Wizard. He’s such a stupid dictator kind of guy. I don’t understand why he can’t just be more sensitive and accept people for their differences. Why can’t he just see that Animals can play important roles in society? But besides that, yeah, oh my gosh, Emily, I hated how Nor was chained. But the Wizard does what he wants because he can, which still stinks.
Maddie, that was a good connection to actual slavery in the past. I completely agree with you. It’s just so wrong. No living being should be traded for slavery in order for one to obtain a certain item. It makes me really think about the treatment of Animals. The trading of them for the ax shows evidence kind of that they’re just a bunch of animals. It’s horrible, though, because they seem so knowledgable and if they were given a chance to join politics in Oz then maybe society would be better.
ALSO!!! I knew it all along! Frex is gay! Ever since the part about Frex always acting so affectionate towards Turtle Heart I knew. It still weirds me out though. Both parents? That’s just gross. So I’m a little confused. Nessa’s dad was Turtle Heart right? I think I missed the part about Elphaba explaining Shell. Can someone explain, please?
Oh, good point Chey/Katie haha (: I'm pretty sure anyone could be different just by how they were brought up. But then again everything happens for a reason so everything that happened to Elphaba was supposed to happen.
ReplyDeleteKate: That definitely clarifies your opinion a little better for me. I definitely agree with what you are saying in the fact that she is now accepting her title as the Wicked Witch of the West. However, I still think that she is not evil herself. My opinion still stands :)
ReplyDeleteTiff: I'm pretty sure that yes, Nessarose's father is Turtle Heart and not Frex.
I agrees Cheyenne I don't think that Elphaba is truly evil even at this point. There were so many other variables that affected her. How she was brought up was definitely contributed because things were unstable in her childhood and she was not treated very well. She had been bullied throughout her life and witnessed so many injustices concerning the Animals and other events that if she had turned out any differently it would have been.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you Katie when she does accept her title but i think it was a gradual acceptance because on my page 337 "That's why I call myself a witch now: the Wicked Witch of the West, if you want the full glory of it. As long as people are going to call you a lunatic anyway, why not get the benefit of it? It liberates you from convention." She had already really accepted her title and it allowed her to do things she wouldn't normally do. If everyone already thought so poorly of her she might as well fit the part. This is also how society influences her. They gave her the title she just merely lived up to it.
I agree Maddie she doesn’t really seem to know her own reasons for wanting the shoes so much. Nessarose did promise them to her but why does Elphaba need them so much? She is fixated on them and will stop at nothing to get them.
I also like the quote on page 338 “People who claim they are evil are usually no worse than the rest of us.’ He sighed. ‘Its people who claim that they’re good, or anyway better than the rest of us, that you have to be wary of.” Elphaba doesn’t claim to be evil but the rest of the land claims it for her. Boq makes a good point because those who claim to be evil are feared but those who claim to be better than everyone else like Nessarose and the Wizard are the ones to look out for. They believe they can overcome anything and are superior to the average population and if they believe it enough others will follow suit making them powerful.