Thursday, December 2, 2010

First Reading

Okay so our first section is pages 1-51. Feel free to start conversations from this post on whatever. First impressions, predictions, connections to the play, ect.

13 comments:

  1. First impressions of the book seems like a good place to start for me since the only connection to the play so far is No One Mourns the Wicked (typed as I listen to said song :) ).

    The only character I like so far is Elphaba, who has done almost nothing up to this point in time. I like Turtle Heart to an extent too. I just don't understand him half the time and rely on the other characters to interpret his gibberish for me. Melena is high half the time and she's a slut basically. She was spoiled half of her life and now all she does is complain. I think she used to love Frex but she doesn't any more (considering she has multiple affairs including Turtle Heart). Frex loves Melena but loves his career more which is a problem for me. If you're married to someone, you should be more devoted to them than to your job, especially considering the birth of your first child! Nanny is okay too. She's better than Turtle Heart, I'll give her that, but there is something that just bothers me about her. Maybe it's that she tends to speak in the third person a lot and tries to be the center of attention.

    One thing that caught my attention was the conversation beginning on page 42 that had to do with a character known as "Ozma Tippetarius" who was known to be about the same age as Elphaba. I was wondering if this character would ever become important or if she was just mentioned in passing? Could she be Galinda?


    Frex at one point asks if Turtle Heart is a unionist, a type of religion. I'm assuming that Frex and the other characters (with the exception of Nanny) are unionist. Frex often mentions an "Unnamed God" whom I am assuming is the parallel to the Christian God. Maybe, throughout the story, if this plays a large role, we can piece together what exactly these unionists believe in, if there is anything more than the Unnamed God.

    One other thing I found interesting was the role of the Time Dragon Clock. It was simply a cool prop in the play and I think that it's going to come back later in the story. I think that it was significant that after Elphaba was born that the midwives left her (and Melena) under the clock. Do you guys think that that could have symbolized anything at all? Or has my reading of the Scarlet Letter caused me to think that everything is a symbol? :)

    One last thing I liked from this first reading: some random funny parts. Most of these were sarcastic. The first one was on page 32: "'Eat that breakfast, for you'll get no more if you throw it on the ground.' Elphaba picked up the fish and threw it on the ground." That goes with one of Nanny's ideas on the previous page: "Perhaps, thought Nanny, little green Elphaba chose her own sex, and her own color, and to hell with her parents." The second of my favorite parts wasn't as important but more funny than the other. It is on the last page of the reading where Elphaba is playing with some of the other children and Gawnette is screaming at them not to bite. Nanny simply says "'Aren't children divine?'" That just made me smile. :)

    So writing all of this is making me think that Ms. Kindel is training us to over analyize books and stuff. Did Gregory Macguire really go into all of this thought? I doubt it. But maybe he did. I have no idea.

    ~Katie :)

    ReplyDelete
  2. So I wanted to start off by talking about something from reading question number three. The opening scene shows Elphaba listening in on Dorothy, the Tin Man, the Lion, and the Scarecrow. She hears them gossiping about her and saying things like she was "possessed by demons" This sets the stage for the rest of the story because it shows that Elphaba is not well liked by anyone in Oz. It allows the reader to see that she does not fit into the society. But it's interesting because the other characters dont fit in very well either. The Lion is cowardly when he should be brave, for example yet society does not hate him.

    When Melena and Frex are talking on page 14, Frex says, "It's the devil. The devil is coming." Melena says, "Don't say a thing like that on a day our child is expected." This is sorta ironic because when Elphaba is born she is perceived as evil like the devil. No one likes her because she is different due to her green skin, so it is ironic that her father would say the devil is coming on the same day Elphaba is supposed to be born.

    To Kate's comment about the Time Dragon Clock and when Elphaba and Melena are left under if after she is born..on page 17 it says, "Who had engendered this Time Dragon, this fake oracle, this propaganda tool for wickedness..." It's interesting how the Time Dragon Clock is associated with wickedness and Elphaba is left there and she is also associated with wickedness. That's what I got out of it anyway. May not be right.

    I find it interesting too how the Clock of the Time Dragon depicted that Frex should be killed as well as Melena because of the little dragon she was going to give birth to. While Elphaba is not a dragon, she is seen as a curse/outsider in her society. It seems the Clock of the Time Dragon has a much bigger role in the book than in the movie.

    If the play is like the book, then Elphaba is not Frex's biological daughter because Melena had the baby with another guy besides her husband. The result was Elphaba who is described as a demon and a devil because of her skin color. This is similar to Hester and Pearl from The Scarlet Letter. Pearl is the result of Hester and Dimmesdale and she is described as a demon child as well just like Elphaba. Just thought I'd make that connection. On page 40 Melena wonders if Elphaba is the result of Frex's failure as a preacher or because of her own sloppy morals. Elphaba being associated with the devil would be a result of her parent's mistakes.

    Overall, I really like the book even though it is different from the play. Definitely different, but still good.

    Just as a side note, my copy of this book is different than Katie's in the aspect of page numbers. Her breakfast quote on page 32 doesnt come up in my copy till page 42. I had to read to page 66 in order to be in the same place as everyone else on page 51. Just as a heads up:)

    -Cheyenne

    ReplyDelete
  3. One other thing I forgot to comment on was when Melena says on page 64, "No one knows the color of a soul." This is implying that Elphaba does have a soul regardless of her color on the outside. When everyone discriminates against her for her skin color, she is still human regardless of what they say. Just thought that quote was interesting.

    ReplyDelete
  4. No One Mourns the Wicked. Including me.

    Yes! It’s true! As of yet, I do NOT like Elphaba or the book. As a huge fan of the musical, the book must just be a shock. I mean, she bit off that woman’s figure! Was anyone else totally disgusted, or was that just me? Shark teeth were defiantly not in the play…

    But animal teeth were not the only thing that shocked me. Yes, that’s right; I’m talking about the Time Dragon. It is one seriously messed up clock. What clock doesn’t tell time but puts on semi-pornographic shows? I agree with Chey and Katie. I would bet 2 million brownie points it will be an important symbol later on in the book. As of yet, I agree with Chey. The Time Dragon may symbolize wickedness. What I thought was interesting was that Elphaba imitated a dragon. On page 44 Elphaba “bared her teeth- as if she knew what a dragon was, as if she were pretending- and roared. Her green skin made her more persuasive as if she were a dragon child.” From seeing the musical, I know that Elphaba tries to expose the wickedness of the wizard. The Time Dragon tried to expose the evils of the man who committed adultery. The two might be connected because rather than being wicked themselves, they expose the wickedness of others.

    So far, Elphaba is more “wicked” than in the play. After she is born, and bites off the woman’s figure, the midwife notes that she “sips blood even before [her] first suck of mother’s milk!” If I ever heard that a baby drank blood before milk, I would think there was something wrong with it. It could be a sign that she is “wicked.”

    Katie, I agree with you. Turtle Heart is weird. Not only can I not understand him, but what kind of name is Turtle Heart? But I do have one thought about him. He was described as handsome and he’s having an affair with Melena. Does that mean that he is Nessa’s father? That would just suck for Frex. Both of his children’s fathers would be from his wife’s affairs.

    I would like to bring up one other point. Why is Elphaba afraid of water? In the musical, she is not destroyed by water. As we all know, the people of Oz believed that water would melt her. She and Fiyero used this belief to trick everyone into thinking she was dead so they could escape. If this is true in the book, why won’t she go near water? What if she can be destroyed by water? WHAT IF SHE DIES?!!?

    Okay. Panic moment over. And those are my first thoughts! But there is one thing that I would like us to dissect throughout the book: “Are people born wicked? Or do they have wickedness thrust upon them?“

    ReplyDelete
  5. Casey, I LOVE the song reference there!!! I think just because I am in love with the play I like Elphaba. But I can give you credit for not liking her since she hasn't really done much and what she has done is just sort of random because she's only like two. She has no idea what the heck she is doing. Even if she did bite a woman's finger off.

    I agree that it does suck for Frex that both of his children will not be fathered by him but by the affairs Melena had. It also sucks that both of his children come out disfigured. I mean Elphaba's green and Nessa can't walk (at least in the play she can't).

    To end my short agreement with everyone comment, Chey I can't believe you just connected this story to The Scarlet Letter. WHY?!?!?! but it was a good connection nevertheless. :)

    ReplyDelete
  6. Okay, so maybe it’s because I didn’t see the play but I have no idea what’s going on with this Clock of the Time Dragon. I get that it’s this giant symbol for wickedness, but besides that I’m getting pretty lost.
    I really like the book so far. Each character is painted so we can understand them. This may sound weird but so far my favorite character, besides Elphaba, is Melena. The way Gregory Maguire created her as this person of completely corrupted morals, but is only this way because of her sad life, is very interesting. I think she doesn’t love Elphaba because she thinks she came out the way she is because of her unhappiness. Like Katie said, Frex cares more about his career than he does about his wife and his newborn child. She’s forced to feel cared about by having affairs. There’s at least a page of description about Melena and Turtle Heart’s affair and how he “saved her and restored her sense of grace” (47). She is such a tragic character that is made to seem horrible, but I find her very interesting.
    Casey brought up an interesting point about Melena’s affairs. Both of their children would be from affairs. In the book they talked about how Frex was “the seventh son of a seventh son” (31). Since both of “his children” are not boys it seems as if that is part of the wickedness. Her affairs caused her to have girls, instead of boys like Frex’s family tree is so used to.
    My sister read the book before I did and she mentioned how it flashbacks a lot which can make it confusing. That happened for me a little at the beginning with the preface but I can imagine that sort of stuff will happen later in the book. I just wanted to let you guys know something that may come up so you can better understand. :)

    -Emily

    ReplyDelete
  7. Ok so I really love this part of the book :).
    I have to say that the first view of the wicked witch and the yellow brick road is a great image. It shows us a POV that has never been seen before, which totally twists our perception of an American classic.
    I really dislike Frex so far. He seems alot like the kind of dad who hates it when anything goes against his will. Also has anyone else begun to picture him as a total creep? He almost seems like the kind of pastor who would be all Christian and then suddenly WHAM he starts a cult, thats five teenage wives and pops out a few dozen crazy cult kids. Don't get me wrong he gets major props for going out into freaksville to enlighten to poor, but he seems to be taking it too far.
    As far a Melena goes, I'm not that crazy about her either. I mean in the real world people have disabled babies all the time. Her lack of motherly instinct is kinda disturbing. At least she has the common sense to call in Nanny (who I like btw).
    And now to adress the Dragon Clock. No matter how many times I read that scene, I still get creeped out. I mean what kind of mother has a menage a trois with her daughter? Kind seems to reflect Melena's lack of motherly skill. As for the whole symbol of wickedness thing, I'm not so sure I agree. I think that the clock is a symbol of truth. It does not create the evil acts, it simply exposes them. Therefore it is more symbolic of the truth and the harsh effects that the truth can have.
    And now for the grand exit. Thoughts on Elphaba. I like the way she is painted here much more so than in the play. I mean, I know that the play only has limited time to develop her as a character, but the depth to which she is created here is simply amazing. Granted, she is just a baby now, but her extended diffrences set her up to be a much more interesting character. Apart from the whole green with sharp teeth thing, I find the author's decision to make her genitalia messed up is a very bold move. And yes for all of you that are squimish THERE IS LOTS OF SEX IN THE BOOK! So in the spirit of banishing awkwardness I would like to adress the fact that this makes her not only abnormal in society, but even if she finds someone to love her, nothing about their relationship will ever be normal.
    So those are my first thoughts. (btw bravo Cheyanne for the cross refrence ;) very academic of you)

    ReplyDelete
  8. Haha Katie I made the reference to the Scarlet Letter because it was there! I had to say it! and thank you very much Maddie! Except I dont know what you are doing in AP English seeing as how you cant spell my name right, even though its listed on the post, and we've known each other since Freshmen year:)

    -Cheyenne (not with an "a", Maddie)

    ReplyDelete
  9. CheyEnne I am very sorry, but I was quite tired when I posted. From now on I will be sure to speel your beautiful name correctly :)

    ReplyDelete
  10. wow and I will spell spell correctly too

    ReplyDelete
  11. Alright my computer is stupid. I saved my post to Microsoft word thinking it would save but nope, didn't happen so now i have to type it all over again.
    My first impression of the book was that it was quite different from the play. I really disliked Melena from the beginning when she was mentioned as Frex's wife. I thought she would be a humble person because she married a not so wealthy minister and she grew in an upper-class family. Also I dont like how she always complains about being lonely while her husband is away traveling in an attempt to preach to people to get them to be good citizens. She will sleep with just about any guy who comes strolling around the neighborhood, just like the Turtleheart guy. It was quite disturbing how she invited him into her home, talked for like an hour, and then just did the deed. She also seemed too careless to be a mother. Mothers are supposed to love their children unconditionally but she complained about Elphaba the moment she realized her daughter was green. It should not matter what her daughter's skin color is, she was still born by Melena.
    Frex is also a pretty weird man. He seems so oblivious to the fact that Melena is unfaithful. He does score some points for eventually accepting Elphaba as his daughter even though she is green, unlike his wife. I thought he seemed pretty stupid when Melena said they could not journey to the Quadling country because she was pregnant again. What was really going inside his head? Did he even find it suspicious as to why Turtleheart was still in his home and why he and Melena got along so well?
    I think the Time Dragon is also an important symbol, like Casey said. It showed the evil inside the munchkinlanders like when the puppet wife and daughter commited adultery with the father. It was really disturbing to me that it was in the book but it was still interesting. Anyways, Frex's cousin wrote in the letter that the Time Dragon is wheeled around all over so it would definitely stop in his village for a period of time and then move along to another one.
    Overall I like the book so far. It has some very interesting and odd characters. I feel bad that my post is so late though, anyways...yeahhh. GOOD BOOK (:

    ReplyDelete
  12. I also applaud Cheyenne for referencing the Scarlet Letter haha :D

    ReplyDelete
  13. Haha I appreciate it Maddie ;) but please don't turn into Casey. Up until right now, I thought you were a pretty decent speller haha...and thank you Tiffany :)

    ReplyDelete